Structuring Chaotic Minds

Beyond Borders: Thriving in a New Cultural Landscape

• Alexandra & Oliver Catt • Season 3 • Episode 11

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What drives two successful professionals to uproot their lives in the UK and start anew on a small Caribbean island? Journey with Oliver and Alexandra Catt as they share their bold decision to embrace change, leaving behind established careers for the untamed beauty and slower pace of Grenada. Feel the emotional weight of Alexandra’s airport farewell and discover the enchanting yet challenging landscape that greeted them. This episode promises a raw, intimate look at the courage it takes to redefine not just where you live, but how you live.

Experience the cultural richness and strong community spirit that Oliver and Alexandra found in Grenada, a stark contrast to their previous life in the UK. Learn how the simple act of replacing a bank card can reveal the island’s unique pace and how local food traditions intertwine with global influences in their children’s lives. Oliver's tales of finding unexpected camaraderie and support highlight the profound connections that can be forged in a tight-knit community, where neighbors swiftly come to aid during crises.

Unravel the realities of setting up a business in Grenada through Oliver and Alexandra's eyes, as they share the misconceptions and challenges they faced. From navigating stereotypes to understanding the complexities of local culture, they candidly discuss the hurdles and triumphs of integrating into their new home. Their story is a testament to the transformative power of cultural adaptability and the rewarding experience of building a new life abroad, proving that with openness and resilience, one can thrive in even the most unfamiliar environments.

To Learn More About Oliver & Alexandra Catt, visit their

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Alexandra Catt

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Melissa Franklin:

Today, on Structuring Chaotic Minds, we're diving into an inspiring story about bold moves, personal growth and the power of community. My guests, my newest friends Oliver and Alexandra Catt, left everything familiar behind to build a new life and a business in Grenada. It's a journey about courage, connection and transformation that will inspire anyone looking to embrace change and thrive in new environments. Oliver and Alexandra have taken entrepreneurship to a whole new level, creating meaningful relationships and building a sense of belonging in a place that once felt foreign. Today they're going to share their insights on adapting, thriving and lessons they learned along the way. But first let's cue that trailer and dive into this powerful conversation.

Melissa Franklin:

Welcome to Structuring Chaotic Minds, the podcast where we redefine what it means to thrive as leaders, entrepreneurs and individuals in today's fast pace world. I'm Melissa Franklin. I'm an executive and leadership coach on a mission to help strong, driven individuals embrace the importance of mental wellness without letting it define or limit them. Here we break down the misconceptions about mental health and success. Mental wellness isn't a weakness. It's the foundation for becoming the best version of ourselves, because when we take care of ourselves, we can lead, create and thrive in every area of our life. This show is about balance. It means owning our challenges without being held back by them, growing as leaders and building thriving communities where everyone has a chance to succeed. Let's dive in and embrace the chaos together. Welcome, alexandra and Oliver. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, hi. I'm going to start with you and Oliver, thank you. Thank you, hi. I'm going to start with you, oliver. What inspired you guys to move to Grenada, and what was it more of a professional or personal opportunity? Maybe a mix of both?

Oliver Catt:

I was going to say one inspired, I got bullied into it. No, I didn't really. I was going to say one inspired, I got bullied into it. No, I didn't really. I think one of the biggest things with what Alexandra and I did we were long-term career professionals and we had been traveling a lot and we knew some friends that lived in the Caribbean and we went to visit and they were like you need to move here, you need to come and work with us, you need to get over here. We said no, it was never going to happen. And then one day, once upon a time, after many conversations happened, we were actually headhunted by a rather large hospitality organization who came along for jobs for both of us and was like okay, when can you come over here? And that was seven years ago, I think, right, alex.

Alexandra Catt:

Oh man yeah, how did?

Melissa Franklin:

you, how did you guys prepare for such a big change? So I guess, alexandra, I'll ask you that one first. Um, moms, that part was seven years ago. No kids yet, right?

Alexandra Catt:

yeah, no kids.

Alexandra Catt:

So I think just the preparing was. It sounds really odd. We had six weeks like they literally said this is your, the flight that you're coming out on, we need you to start on this date. So I just went into go mode like we had to start the house, we had to start saying goodbye to friends, leave jobs, all of that. But Oliver left his job I'd already left, so it was I don't ever.

Alexandra Catt:

Really well, it didn't hit me until I got to the airport and my brother called me and he was like he's not the most emotional person and he said I'm really proud of you, good luck and I love you. I'd burst into tears in the airport, like literally sobbing, like um, are you okay? Didn't know. I was on the phone to my brother, just saw me on the phone and this angel of an S to an F, it's like pop a brush, do you want a cup of tea? And I was like yeah, I really do. And then Oliver just ushered me onto the plane because I think he was worried if I didn't get on, I wouldn't get on um.

Alexandra Catt:

But yeah, I think preparing you, just because of how short the time was, that there wasn't much that hit us until we got here and then we were like like this, is it now? Like you really were just in. This is the day we're leaving, like I said, in six weeks time. So we've kind of got to get everything done. You're just really task orientated. With it I mean the amount of stuff that we ended up. Friends and family just loved coming to our house because they came empty-handed and they're left with carloads full of clothes and shoes and books and tvs and there was a sponge at one point. I was like, just take it, like I'm not. We already knew what we were taking with us. I think that left what a week before we left. So I mean, that was pretty much it. I think that's the worst answer I can give because we were just very short on time.

Oliver Catt:

I really I forgot about that crying at the airport thing and what I found hilarious about that, because the airport, all these bags. We'd already had an argument right and I swear everybody in the airport had seen this argue because it's like stressful. We were leaving, everything was going on and then obviously alex burst into tears and I hadn't witnessed the conversation, I think the the lady at the check-in desk. I thought we'd had like that much of a bust up that I put her into tears. They actually gave us a 20 pounds gift card at the Starbucks like here you go, go get some coffee.

Melissa Franklin:

Oh man, I love it. What were your first impressions upon arriving, oliver?

Oliver Catt:

What in Grenada?

Oliver Catt:

Do you know what, in terms of the Caribbean, I'd only ever been to St Lucia before, so I knew how rural St Lucia was compared to where we were living. I don't think I expected how rural Grenada was to St Lucia when we first arrived. It's a completely different ball game here. Every island is different, every island has its own culture. Every island has its own history, heritage, background and when we got here, I mean don't get me wrong it was breathtaking the minute we landed and I remember looking out the window and thinking we were going to actually land on the water, because the runway was next to the water and we were sat by the window and just landing, I thinking a minute we're landing on an island, like where's the island? Um, but it was, it was.

Oliver Catt:

It was an amazing place. And from from arriving and getting at the airport, being picked up and taken to where we were staying for the next few nights to get ourselves organized, it was just amazing. Uh, high on adrenaline, uh, high on an open bar, on a 12-hour flight, um, and then arriving, uh, and and just, we arrived. What? I think we got here for sunset, I think it was, if I remember correctly, and that was our first kind of exposure to Grenada, and it was just, it was just breathtaking, and we hadn't even seen much the.

Oliver Catt:

The distance from where we were staying, from the airport, was like four minutes, so so we didn't even get to see much, uh, until the next day. Uh, we had a huge thunder of rain, so I thought, oh, is this what we expect now for the rest of our lives?

Melissa Franklin:

that's funny. All that anxiety and woof, that seems pretty quick loop then. Well, you already kind of mentioned that the cultures are different. So I guess, alex, let me kick this one to you. What are some of the?

Alexandra Catt:

biggest cultural differences that you all encountered and how they actually impacted your day to day life or even the business. I think, just generally in the Caribbean we call it island time. Um, what you're used to in a country like the UK or America, where you can send an email and you get a response like straight away, you can effectively finish a process within 48 hours. In the Caribbean, and specifically Grenada, that is just not the case. I mean, replacing a bank card is the best example I can give. I had to do that the other week. The girls had taken my bank card and were playing shop with it and it was lost in the house. So I called about and do all the like lost card process and they said you know, naturally you need to go into the branch to get your replacement card. Fine, first time I've had to do it in Grenada 45 minutes spent doing paperwork and at the end of it the lady said I need to take it now to my manager for approval and I was like fine, and then I went just out of curiosity, what happens if your manager doesn't approve it? And she's like I don't really know and I just thought in England you never would have had that process like it would have been done online, you probably would have had to go into the branch to pick it up or it would have been sent to you, but 45 minutes sitting down and doing paperwork just wouldn't have been done. So I think island time is definitely the biggest culture shock for a lot of people, especially doing what I do now. People expect like really quick responses and I'm like that's just not going to happen. So you've got to manage expectations really well when you're dealing with for me, uk, us, especially in the Caribbean, um, but it also allows you to take a step back sometimes and enjoy things. I mean it gets frustrating and all of that. Um, I think the biggest one is everybody as well says morning to each other. I mean you, I do it with the girls If they walk into a store. It doesn't matter if you don't know the store owner, you don't know anybody in the store. You just kind of announce yourself. You go morning, afternoon, evening and it's.

Alexandra Catt:

I guess it ties into the sense of community that I think is culturally really strong in Grenada. I mean it's a really small island, so everybody knows everybody, but it doesn't matter if you're related or not, everybody just jumps in to help out. We had really severe flooding the other week and it didn't matter if you knew somebody or not, you just you saw it with everybody. They just jump in and help. And I mean, again, hitchhiking is quite common here. You'll just see people on the side of the road, cars will pull over. You might not know the person that well, but you know, it's just that real big community element that I think is very different to what the UK was when we left. I mean, I'm from up north where there's still, I think, quite a strong sense of community in England, but we left when we lived in, or we lived in London for a little bit. I didn't feel it as much there, um, but I'd say those are probably the biggest thing.

Alexandra Catt:

And the food I have never seen a culture like the Caribbean who are so obsessed with their food. I love it because I'm a foodie and the food is delicious, but things like that, I'd say. And there's the heritage. I think there's just such a different culture when it comes to celebrating things. So, halloween's not big in Grenada, but since we've had the girls, they're exposed to it through different things. So we've kind of had to work around, respecting that the girls are grenadian and their culture and not dilute it too much, but also nowadays kids are exposed to so much other stuff. So I guess trying to do that hybrid and still respecting everything that's what I'd say the biggest things I love that.

Melissa Franklin:

What about for you, oliver?

Oliver Catt:

There we go. I don't know what happened there, but I lost the unmute button for some reason. Just really, to echo everything that Alex just said there it's, the sense of community is something that I've never experienced, and I've traveled and worked abroad for a number of years before we came here, um, and yeah, okay, it was a little bit different. I mean, anything outside of the UK is different, um, but here, the camaraderie, the support, the network, our friendship group. When we first moved here, we were told that we were going to be probably one of six back then I would like to say expats on the island, right, because that's what we were. We were, we were brought over by a company. We didn't know if we were staying going, living here. We could have been here a month, we could have been in six months. We've been two years and we're here seven years later doing our own thing rather than working for that company. But we were told it was a very small community and that could not have been further from the here seven years later, doing our own thing rather than working for that company. But we were told it was a very small community and that could not have been further from the truth. This just blew up the people that we met, the people that we surrounded ourselves by, and we had our own family here within a matter of months.

Oliver Catt:

Um, and I know that I can pick up the phone and call one of 60 people and they will be around this house in a drop of a hat. Prime example I won't go into too much detail, but there was an incident when our eldest was 10 months old and we had to literally leave the house immediately, go to the hospital, and I made three phone calls, like in the car, left the house open, everything was going. The lanterns were going, we had mosquito torches like a lit fire, dinner was in the oven. We got in the car, we went. I made three phone calls and every single one of those people went around to my house, checked it, locked it up, closed it up like shut down.

Oliver Catt:

I left the house open and I don't know how long it took them to get there, but it was one of those things where I know I didn't even need to think about it and it would be taken care of, the same way that any of those people or any of our close-knit groups say we need you, we are there, there's no messing around, there's no. Oh yeah, I'm busy. You, you need somebody. They're there. And I think that is the biggest part of the community, because we all have come from a different background. We've got friends here from the UK, canada, other islands, trinidad, st Lucia, jamaica, us you name it. The list just goes on and on, and we're all there for each other and I think that's the key part of all of that, and I think that's the key part of all of that and it makes living here a completely different ballgame to when we first arrived, at what we expected.

Melissa Franklin:

I love it. How has that experience then actually shaped you guys, as entrepreneurs, in your approach to business?

Oliver Catt:

So, I left my job from the hospitality company just shy. We're a month shy of five years ago. I set up my own business january 1st or january 2nd 2020, two months before the public shut down for covid. Let's just say that first year wasn't a good year. I don't think it was a good year for a lot of people. But we pivoted, we bounced back strong and this was running my own thing, baby on the way.

Oliver Catt:

So there was a lot of scary things going on, but we had to make it work. And, yeah, I could sit here and say everything was rainbows and unicorns. It wasn't, you know, it was stressful. We had arguments, we had fights and but. But again, I think knowing that the whole world was in some kind of predicament, kind of, was the light at the end of the tunnel. Um, but, if anything, that made me work a hell of a lot harder.

Oliver Catt:

I stepping into this role, I knew it was going to be difficult setting up my own business, but I thought it was going to be easier than what it was. I thought I would have a nice easy ride and I would send out social media posts and have clients flooding through my door. It didn't happen. We learned that we learned the hard way. But, um, I will say and this isn't just being me being nice towards her, but I wouldn't be doing it without Alex, without her pushing me and kicking me in certain areas many times a week to pull my finger out and get moving.

Oliver Catt:

So you know, we are where we are now and I think it has definitely shaped that, and I even say to this day, if Alex and I were still in the UK, we wouldn't be running our own independent businesses and launching a third in the next month. If we were still in the UK, we would still be employed categorically. I know that would be. It would have the 2.4 children, the house, the mortgage and everything else. This is just okay. We had to make it work and it's working.

Melissa Franklin:

I love it. Well, let's shift over then, alex. Let us know what are some unique challenges you guys have faced in building relationships and networking in Grenada think off the bat.

Alexandra Catt:

Stereotypes, people, people, the minute they see you, they hear your accent, will put you in a box, um, and I think that's whoever you are, wherever you are in the world. Um, it probably didn't bother me so much until I had the girls who were born here, so they are first generation Grenadian. Um, and just going back to what Oliver said earlier, our friendship group is so diverse and we have a lot of Grenadians within it, so when they realized, we didn't know if we're having a boy or a girl for either. So when they realized that babies were going to be Grenadian, they were straight off the bat. You know, I'm going to teach them how to cook oil down, which is the national dish, which is the national dish, and they were just so proud to pass on the heritage and the culture and all of that to the girls that I've never been so worried about it. But I think what I've experienced is such a split in that is, that the girls are just judged, and I've been judged straight away. Like I said, you're put in a box because of how you look and how you sound. The girls have very British accents. We have this conversation all the time. I don't know where it comes from because they're surrounded by all these different accents, especially Grenadian, but they have the most British accent out of all the kids, um, and obviously some of it's down to Oliver and I still having ours, and you know they're with us all the time, our school and nursery, um.

Alexandra Catt:

So I think that's been probably the biggest struggle, um, and it's quite disheartening at times because it's if somebody's willing to have the conversation with you or not, because you know, I've walked into a store and had names shouted at me and I'm a bit like, why like? And I'll say to them you know why have you said that? And it's not so to get into an argument, I genuinely want to have a conversation with you because people have children all around the world nowadays and that's just, I guess, the norm, for whatever your reasons are. And you know, we've settled here now. We're no longer what you would call expats, we are now immigrants of Grenada. I mean, that's, this is where we will live for the rest of our lives, foreseeably, um.

Alexandra Catt:

So I think that's been a really big struggle, but I think, trying to have the conversations with people and say I totally appreciate why you have this stereotype, but moving forward for the next generation. What can we all do and work together so that this doesn't carry on, because we're never going to move forward? Grenada is still a very developing country, so you've got to pass this on to the next generation in a better state than it is, and that involves ideals, mindset, everything like that. So I think that has been my biggest struggle, um, and it's shared by a lot of people of different backgrounds, but I think for me that's just something that we experience I'd say what all of our near enough on a daily basis. I used to shrug it off a lot and then I realized I'm actually not doing any service to the girls doing that, because it's something that if they see that I just ignore it all the time, then it's not fair.

Alexandra Catt:

And the biggest turning point on it was when our eldest came home from school one day and she was in tears and she was like I'm the wrong color and they said I'm not grenadian and my hair is wrong and all of that. I thought she's three. Like no child at that age should ever be feeling like that, and it's the conversations that happen at home. I'm fully aware of that. But, like I said, it's then when somebody talks to me about it, I'm like do you want to have a conversation with me about it? Because if we're both open, then we can have a conversation. But if you're just going to sit here and tell me everything that is wrong about the colonization, everything that happened, nobody's ever going to sit there and argue with you and say that what happened was right wasn't by any means. But if you're going to tell us all with the same brush, I can't have a conversation with you and we're never going to move forward with that.

Melissa Franklin:

I think that's the biggest one for me yeah, I think we've had that conversation before and I appreciate that about both of you so much. So what about for you, oliver? What is some of the biggest challenges you've had in building those type of relationships in Grenada?

Oliver Catt:

I don't think I've had challenges per se, um, I mean, a lot of the people that I deal with are outside of Grenada because my business is predominantly US, uk based. The challenges that I've really had is when it comes to me, is trying to network here because it's a small community and they're still very much developing. They're still very much developing. There isn't the type of business gravitas and mentality locally that you would find in other countries and that's what's missing Now, again, still developing, still small Considerations against other islands you know you look at places like solution, 300, 300, 000 people, trinidad, you know a million, somewhere like that. You know we're 115 000 people, circus something like that. Um, and the businesses that we have here are built out of necessity, so insurance companies, cell phone companies, car companies, like everyday needs, whereas the business that I create for my training or my consulting or anything like that, there isn't really. There is need, but only in a small minute pocket of industries and businesses here at grenada. So for me, when I've worked with hotels here in grenada or when I've worked with cell phone companies here in grenada, I've picked the niches where they're going to need my support and need my help and then taking it to where I would take it to somewhere in the us, for example. They don't have those companies here and that's been the hardest thing.

Oliver Catt:

So I go to a lot of networking events. I've got another one on wednesday night that I've been invited to by the uh tourism authority here. Yes, there's a lot of like-minded people there that want to run this business, but they're all in the industry of either hotel or something that's. That's generic for tourism and I think that's the the difficulty here. I want to go to conferences and events where I go and meet a lot of people and I have friends, friends in all these other islands, that every week they're at a conference, they're at an event, they're networking. I'm like I went to one last month, I'm going to one this week, probably not going to be the next one until January, february, and that's a big challenge for me, especially in my industry, because I have so much to give, especially from a training perspective.

Oliver Catt:

I ironically had this conversation yesterday with somebody. I spoke to somebody recently and I offered a customer service course for free to somebody I know, a friend, because they're having customer service issues, and their response was it wouldn't really be accepted and they don't think any changes would happen, and I think that's the mentality here is no one's willing to change, no one's willing to drive forward. There are don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's not everybody, but there is a and, alex, you can attest to this. There is a fine line between people willing to and wanting to change and see a difference versus things that are just going to continue on as they are and they're not going to change, they're not going to develop. And that is one of the hardest things I find here is people not wanting to take that next step, not wanting to push for the next envelope. You know that's a big struggle for me.

Alexandra Catt:

But I don't and again, we were part of the same conversation yesterday. I don't know if it's people don't want to, because I see a lot of people across the Caribbean, especially in Grenada, who have initiative and they have these great ideas. I think where I have experienced the problem and have seen it firsthand is going back to what you said earlier, oliver, about the businesses here. A lot of them are very legacy-based businesses who are either owned by families, so it's just been passed on generation to generation, or you've got people who've been in these roles for such a long time that it's just that's how it's always been done. So they're firstly, not open to change, which then trickles down. So the people who have these ideas or these initiatives or sit there and go, like the example I gave earlier about the bank, when the girl said, oh well, I don't know, I'm pretty sure she was very switched on. I mean I was talking to her the whole 45 minutes. She was doing the, the admin part very intelligent girl. She, in my opinion, would have had a totally different process in her head. I don't always think there's a an avenue for them to feel safe and comfortable and expressing a potential change or an idea because, like I said, the legacy or the family businesses and this is a general statement, there will always be exceptions to this that well, that's just how it's always been done.

Alexandra Catt:

But on your point, oliver, about our businesses, I think we've kind of spoofed them in a way that our business doesn't just have to be in Grenada, because that would naturally limit us. So I'm US and Canada and I'm international, but my main focus is US and Canada and same for you, oliver. Like we've had to do that just because we love the life down here and, like I said earlier, like we're not expats in Grenada, we are based here, we're immigrants Like that's the term that you want to use and there's just not going to be enough business here for us to have successful businesses. So we've had to balance the fact that we still want to be based in Grenada, have the girls raised here, but we also want to run successful businesses. So I will push Grenada as much as I can for my travel business, but that's not always going to be people's priority.

Melissa Franklin:

I think you both kind of shed light on a topic that I love talking about, and it's called fearless organizations and it really comes down to.

Melissa Franklin:

It's not necessarily a culture of bullying rather than a culture of not wanting to create issues or extra things, and it's not necessarily either about necessarily being suppressed rather than practices that have been put into place to where it becomes acceptable and standard and norm for people. And then you have people like me. They're like wake up. And then I become the ruffling feathers, the the big b, because it's like why won't you just shut up? But when a guy goes in, it could be like a tolerance, a different thing, and you can say that it's a female thing versus a male thing. But I don't believe that either, because I feel like when a male goes in, it could be like a tolerance, a different thing, and you can say that it's a female thing versus a male thing. But I don't believe that either, because I feel like when a male goes in stronghold, they don't want to continue working with them either. Sometimes the people that really do evolve, change, if that makes sense, um 100%.

Alexandra Catt:

I mean, I saw it for men and women at my old company and you're just sat there, like you're, you're giving a problem that you want solved. Five people are giving you male, female, different ages, all of that, are giving you five different potential solutions, but you're still finding issues with every single one. So what's? What is the issue? Because obviously what we're doing isn't working. So let's, let's change it like, let's change up, and it could still fail. That's fine, but at least you've tried something different. Yes, and I don't think it matters who presents the idea like, but then I guess that also comes down to the teamwork and you trusting each other and all of that and the whole infighting that can happen there. So no, we're not going to fix it all, melissa.

Melissa Franklin:

It's not overnight, it's okay.

Alexandra Catt:

I'm thinking about that. It's a work in progress when we're 90 years old, both of us, yes, we did a little bit.

Oliver Catt:

And don't forget, just to add to that people love to moan, Not just me, I mean I'm talking globally.

Melissa Franklin:

Yes, that's true. Well then, thinking about that, what advice would you guys give someone considering starting a new business in a completely new place or culture?

Alexandra Catt:

I honestly you've got to. You've really got to go to the place first. I mean, we've seen it so many times, oliver, that people have come in and I will say the word expert on this one because they were only ever going to be here a short time. And I guess in life there's always situations where you take what you can and you're not going to give much back, and that's that's just certain people's personalities, but they've not done their research on the location. So I'll use Grenada in this example and then like used to a lot of people like to moan. So then it's an issue on everything like why can't I get this on island and why can't I? Now? I'm like because that's the beauty of Grenada, like it's it's probably one of the last islands in the Caribbean that is largely untouched. I mean, it's the tourism side's great about, obviously, like that brings a lot of awareness about Grenada and showcases just how gorgeous this island is and the people and the culture and all of that. But we're still very much not as developed as St Lucia with the big shopping malls and everything like that. So things aren't easily accessible here and that's why I always say to people if you're thinking of moving to Grenada or another island. Come and try it out, and not for a two-week holiday, I mean like rent an Airbnb, rent something and literally live your life like you would be day to day if you were going to move here, because when you've got kids and Halloween's coming up or Christmas or whatever, you can plan ahead. I mean the girls Christmas presents I brought back from New York last month. I hope customs immigration don't watch it. You know it's things like that. Immigration, don't watch it. Uh, you know it's things like that, you. But then that's also the beauty of it because it's not as materialistic here. But you do just make do with stuff and it's like, oh sorry, kids, like we missed the window of that being shipped, so you're just gonna have to wait until after Christmas. Now we had the conversation yesterday, oliver, that if we want to order some certain things now, it's not going to get here till Christmas. It just is what it is.

Alexandra Catt:

But I think my main advice is definitely spend time here, not on a, not on a vacation or a holiday, and also really understand the culture and the people, because you will bring a side and a perspective of that. But this is the people's, this is their home, this is their culture and this is their land. And if you don't go in with that respect, then why are you here? You've really got to immerse yourself in that, and I think it's just that's why I really get annoyed with people who come in and, like I said, they moan about things and why can't I just get a McDonald's? There's no McDonald's in Grenada, which people find laughable, and I'm like because this is just Grenada, like you like it or you like it, and if you don't like it, then find somewhere else that you want to go. But it's just that. Respect for the islands and the cultures and I think that's it. And time, just get used to island time.

Oliver Catt:

And just to add from my side I think this is a really good point with everything when it comes to either ordering or getting things and selling a business in another location, 100% do it. But, as Alex said, figure it out, understand it right. I'm part of a couple of Facebook groups for, like, tourism, expats, people who live here, things like that, and I see people posting that group all the time going, hey, cool. So look, guys, I need some insight on starting a business in Grenada. I'm like, first of all, don't put this in a Facebook group, because you're just going to get stupid answers, right, but they're putting in there like we want to come over, we want to start a business.

Oliver Catt:

The idea behind the business is setting up, I don't know, like a food truck, for example, because it was one I saw recently and then literally not negatively, everybody's then commented and held and gone like dude, have you ever been here? Because one food trucks aren't going to work in Grenada, because everybody knows where they're eating. As Alex said earlier, food is a big thing in this country. Everyone knows where they're eating. As Alex said earlier, food is a big thing in this country. Everyone knows where they're eating and if people go to this new place. Yeah, they'll go to it for three days and then they'll forget it exists. But then secondly, like cost of food imports, cost of equipment, cost of this, cost of that, cost of that Usually when we order anything to bring it over, there's usually between 25% and 60% surcharge in taxes, and that's not including shipping, handling, consolidation or anything else. So a $1,000 order is easily going to cost us somewhere like $1,750 to $2,000 to get and receive from Amazon, for example.

Oliver Catt:

And you just need to think things through and that's my biggest piece of advice for anybody doing this Make sure you understand where you're going. I mean, let alone just being you know. I mean technically, you know we we got told that you know when we're coming over here, we're aliens, so it's going to cost us more to get stuff, this and that and the other you know, and everything else. And I think, being aware of all of that and say which a lot of people will do. And nowadays you can get your digital nomad visas and go be a digital employer somewhere, and all these islands have all of these digital visas, which is great.

Oliver Catt:

But if you want to set up a business that's going to run local, you've got to know your surroundings, you've got to understand it, you've got to be able to be sustainable, because living in these islands is not cheap by far. I would probably say that sometimes we probably spend more in a month here living than we would do with all of our expenses back in the UK. So don't get me wrong. You can get by depends on what you're doing. But schooling and everything else is ridiculous.

Oliver Catt:

And then also just to add to that as well be aware of where you're going, be aware of the islands that you're going to, the countries that you're going to, and it's not what you see in a brochure. We had a friend come over a couple of years ago. I asked him what he liked, what he didn't like, and he was like, yeah, do you know what? I just thought it was going to be more white, tropical, sandy beaches and palm trees and drinking rum and coconuts on the beach every day. I'm like, yeah, because that's what the hotels want to sell you in a brochure, that's what they want you to see. That it's like, yeah, well, you know, it's just, it was more like just like normal life, but on an island. And, yeah, there was a couple of beaches I was like yes because you're not going to an all-inclusive luxury resort.

Oliver Catt:

Get that in your brain, so just make sure you set your expectations right I love that.

Melissa Franklin:

One stick with the all-inclusive resort got it. I'm just playing. So how do you balance staying true to yourselves while integrating into a new community?

Alexandra Catt:

I don't want to say cheated. But we, because of how we were brought in for the company. We were brought in for a purpose right, so we were brought in. I, the company, we were brought in for a purpose right, so we were brought in. I don't know about all the other islands, but I know, specifically in Grenada, that if they want to bring in a non-Grenadian, they have to evidence that their job, role and their responsibilities it couldn't be completed, or whatever, by a Grenadian, like they'd have to go externally. So, because I came in to do a job I guess it was not how I approached it, but I've come in to do this job and I obviously need all of your support on this and and I need you to show me around the island and understand the cultures and everything like that. To give you an example, we landed on the Friday, we started work on the Monday that's how quick it was, so there was no like. And that weekend we literally were looking for a house in Torrential Thunderstorm.

Melissa Franklin:

It's great welcome to Grenada. Listening to the.

Alexandra Catt:

I feel like you. Just at that point you were in it. So you're like this, is it? So the balance, I guess, is you've really got to know yourself. And when I say that is, don't come in like a bull in a china shop, go back to respecting the cultures, the customs, the traditions, but also be really open-minded that some people like you are anywhere in the world. Some people are just not going to accept you, and that's fine, but then you've got to have open conversations with them and really set a tone and a boundary that I'm coming in to do this. I need to understand what you need from me, whether it's a feeling you want a specific. Whatever the outcome is what you need from me so that we can work together and do this. It can't be you versus them and it's got to be that conversation.

Alexandra Catt:

I always go back to this saying and I said it in a really simplistic way to our eldest the other day and I said you know, sometimes in life you have these friends or these people like life's an elevator, right, you have, hopefully, 99 floors on this elevator, but you're starting at zero and if you're really lucky, you're going to meet your best friend at nursery.

Alexandra Catt:

They're going to be with you all the way up to your 99th floor. But sometimes you're going to get off and have people get off, and some people are going to come in at certain levels, and it's just knowing as well who you are and what, who you need to work with you if that makes sense, and some people you've just got to meet them where they are. But and again that goes across the world and all the different cultures, that some people aren't going to want you to succeed or anything like that, and that's when you're just like that's fine, you're not ready for this and we're going to move along anyway. Um, but I guess that's pretty much how I balance it. And just again, it doesn't matter where you are in the world. Having a a really, really strong group of people around you, I think, is key for personal and business success and outside of your relationship, because, oliver, you're not my best friend, I'm so sorry.

Melissa Franklin:

Oliver, she just pointed out as far as sometimes people aren't going to really want us there and sometimes it might create a feeling of being an outsider. How well, I guess I'll frame it differently. What have you learned about overcoming these senses and actually creating a sense of belonging?

Oliver Catt:

do you know? I mean a tough question, but a great one, I think, for me. I mean just echoing what Alex said a minute ago because obviously, for for me, this really sets some people either up for success with belonging or not. And when we had other expats join us at our previous company out here in the islands or even to any of the other islands of this hotel chain we worked for Alex and I were never the balls in China's shops shops and a few of the others weren't, and they understood and they got it because that was the type of people we were.

Oliver Catt:

But then we would have other people come in and would have a mindset and a culture of, let's say, the uk, canada or the us where they could get things like that, and that would set everybody apart and there would be many disagreements on using good terminology, on setting the tone for the success of what you're asking. But what we would notice very quickly is how these people would come and go very quickly. And you know I was there for a few years Alex was there. What six years, I want to say, you know, and that kind of shows that if you pick it up and you understand it, you can be there for the long haul, something like this, especially if you're going in as an expat, if you're sitting up your own business, that's, that's you. But again, you've still got to appreciate where you're going to for that success journey, right, um, but we would see people coming and going because they get frustrated with these things.

Oliver Catt:

I mean, don't go wrong, I get frustrated. My biggest pet peeve has got everything to do with work. It's learner drivers. But learner drivers in Grenada, learner drivers in the rest of the world right, that is my biggest pet peeve in the world. But do you know what? That's a really good example. I should just show you how things are different. Is they still teach hand signals when you're learning to drive here, right, so they have still got the swan, the turn, the this, slow down the compass, like they're still teaching that. But if you don't laugh at it every time oh, it winds me up so much but if you don't laugh at it every time, you aren't going to have the success, and I kind of hope that was a roundabout way of answering your question there. But these, these are the little things that really make a difference love that.

Melissa Franklin:

Looking back, how has this experience changed you, both personally or professionally?

Alexandra Catt:

I like how you both start laughing but don't come off mute, mainly killed each other, got divorced, everything in between, um, I think I don't know if it's age becoming a mum, all of that. I think the more you travel and you're exposed to other cultures and nationalities and all of that, you just have a greater understanding and appreciation, not just for what you've had but for what you have now. I mean all of our friends and family back home are so jealous of the life our girls live because it is so simplistic. I mean they're two and four, they are island girls through and through, clothing optional and it's just, it is. I mean, you come to our house. I can't ever promise. Well, we're potty training at the moment, so Coco is a separate kettle of fish but and I mean she's a redhead, so a redheaded grenadian is just pray for everybody in that scenario.

Alexandra Catt:

But how it's changed me is I just appreciate like little things and the sense of community and it's. It's really solidified some of the stuff that I already knew in England about your community and everything like that and having a strong circle. But when you live pretty much halfway across the world from some of your closest friends who you've known for x amount of time, that really builds it more. But also, time is nothing. We've met people here all about, haven't we? Personal and business, that is, their lifelong friends. Because you're in this situation together where you're like we've got limited resources, this is the problem and we're all just going to have to figure out a way to work towards the solution. Um, but just, we're always going to be like some of the most blessed people because we, you know, every time somebody hears that we live in Grenada, they're like I'm getting on the plane and I'm coming to visit you and they do.

Oliver Catt:

They do get on a plane, to the point where an old landlord of mine literally texted me was like hey, we're coming in April, we just booked our flights. What were you saying? But like, it's like you're gonna stay with you 10 days. Um, we're just echoing that right. I think the the biggest thing with this is we would much rather have people come and visit us than go and visit back in the uk. Why would I pay money to get on a plane, hire an airbnb, drive around a freezing cold country for two weeks, going to see everybody living out of a suitcase, when I can say hey, family and friends, come and stay with us, we've got a spare room, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, go and stay in there and come and have two weeks in the Caribbean. It's a completely different ballgame the community, the camaraderie.

Alexandra Catt:

You don't tell people two weeks. That's your problem. You never give them a timeline.

Oliver Catt:

Yeah, I do. Yes, I do. People have a two-week limit, that's the. That's it. Two weeks and you're out. Um, but the difference is saturday.

Oliver Catt:

In the uk, we would go out and probably go to some trampoline park with the kids or the cinema or whatever things like you know, the usual stuff, right, but this is where we're raising island children, and what I love about what our girls get to experience is and this for those listening, it's not what it sounds, but we go hashing on a Saturday, right, hashing is basically where you go out into the bush, you go out into the rainforest, you go somewhere and you do a between a two and a six mile, whether you're walking, running or or whatever hike through the bush, through the rainforest, through the mountains, through rivers, through waterfalls, and everybody gathers, everybody from every walk of life expats, immigrants, locals, tourists, holidaymakers, you name it. Everybody gets together. It's a big party, there's a big setup, there's music, there's everything. You meet at a playing field and somebody sets this trail. You do the different trails that you do. We did this on Saturday, right, we went out into the rainforest. It rained for 45 minutes.

Oliver Catt:

And when I say rain it absolutely poured it down on Saturday and all four of us were in shorts and t-shirts, getting soaked wet through. And you do the walk, you get back and then, everybody's drinking.

Oliver Catt:

They crack out the rum, they crack out the beers. It's a party. And that's exactly what a Saturday is here in Grenada. There are so many other traditions. I mean, there are so many other islands that hash as well. These are the things that I know, alex, and I know myself.

Oliver Catt:

We want our kids growing up to experience and see, because it's going to make them stronger, growing up with snakes and all this kind of stuff in the bush, right, even though my four-year-old screams at everything. But that is the different, the difference that we want for them. That's what we want to see to them and that's what is so special about being here. And we thank Grenada you know Grenada for having us here, because they've allowed us to stay here and do everything and set up our own businesses because they have, whereas quite easily, when we decided to leave employment, they're going to kick us out and say bang, all right, fair enough. They probably don't want to kick out two of their own grenadian citizens are children, but that's, that's what it is for us, and that's that's what makes it so special to be here.

Melissa Franklin:

Thank you so much. I really appreciate y'all sharing your stories. The key insight that I took away from this conversation two of them stood out the most was one know your space or where you're going to be going into before you really go in there and respect it. Um, second is just more about integrating with the community and really thinking about how you can work together, respecting those conversations. Is there anything you guys want to add to that?

Alexandra Catt:

no, but thank you so much for having us and I just want everyone to come to Grenada, but not all at once and they're not staying with us well, they come for two weeks.

Melissa Franklin:

I mean, that's the limit if that limits, at least there's boundaries.

Oliver Catt:

Make sure you keep them, though and if anybody is coming down here, please bring me a quarter pound of a cheese from the donald's well to all our listeners.

Melissa Franklin:

If you're feeling inspired by oliver and alexandra's journey, I challenge you to reflect on how you can step into your own and actually step out of that comfort zone yourself. So what's one bold step that you can take this week to actually work towards your goals? Go ahead and share your thoughts with us on social media or comment in the section. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to Structuring Chaotic Minds and share with a friend who needs some inspiration. You can follow us on any of your favorite platforms and go ahead and share for updates and stories. Next week, we will be diving into education pieces and actually talking about the trauma and chaos that is going on in those new education spaces here in the United States and across the globe. You won't want to miss it. Oliver and Alexandra, thank you again for joining us and sharing your inspiring journey. Where can our listeners connect with you guys and learn more about your work?

Oliver Catt:

I think for me, the easiest way to connect with me is on LinkedIn, so just find me up. Olivercat C-A-T-T. Can't miss me.

Melissa Franklin:

How about you, Alexandra?

Alexandra Catt:

And same for me. I just do LinkedIn.

Melissa Franklin:

Perfect. Well then, I will be sharing both of your LinkedIn profiles in the comment section in case anyone is curious to see more, and I really like watching y'all on social media for LinkedIn, so I think that would be something fun for anybody to follow. Thank you, guys for listening, for Structuring Chaotic Minds. Until next time, remember to embrace the chaos and turn it into growth. See you soon.

Melissa Franklin:

Thank you so much for joining me for today's episode. To catch up on the rest of the season, visit structureandchaoticmindscom or take a quick browse on your current app to see which episodes resonate with you. If you struggle with your own mental wellness or even just balancing life, we have a team of individuals at our site who can help. You can visit structureandrelationscom and find a coach or mentor fit for you. Thank you for joining me once again, Melissa Franklin, on this episode of Structuring Chaotic Minds. Stay structured and smiling.

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