Structuring Chaotic Minds

Ruffling Feathers in Leadership

• Melissa Franklin

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In this bold and unfiltered panel, four trailblazing leaders come together to explore what it truly means to “ruffle feathers” with purpose. This conversation dives deep into the kind of leadership that disrupts outdated norms, challenges systems from within, and dares to advocate for meaningful change—especially when it's uncomfortable.

Join Sarena Diamond, Royston Telford, Coach TJ Cunningham, and Amanda Price as they share raw insights from the front lines of organizational strategy, youth development, veteran entrepreneurship, and political advocacy. Each panelist brings a powerful story of when they chose courage over silence and purpose over popularity.

Hosted by Melissa Franklin, Founder of Structure Innovations, this episode sheds light on what it takes to lead when your voice shakes, to advocate when the room isn’t ready, and to build systems that serve people—not egos.

Whether you're a business leader, educator, community organizer, or simply tired of the status quo—this episode will leave you inspired to lead louder, bolder, and with impact.

💥 Key Themes:

  • Disruptive leadership with integrity
  • Navigating pushback and resistance
  • Building systems that work for people
  • Leading from experience, not just titles

🎧 Listen in and find the courage to lead your own revolution—one feather at a time.


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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Structuring Chaotic Minds, the podcast where we turn the chaos of everyday challenges into structured success. I'm your host, melissa. In each episode, we'll explore innovative strategies, real-life stories and actionable insights to help you navigate the complexities of leadership, business and personal growth. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a leader or someone striving for personal development, this podcast will give you the tools to create clarity in the chaos. Let's dive in.

Speaker 1:

Good evening everyone, and welcome to tonight's Balance Growth Leadership Series. I'm Melissa Franklin and I'm honored to guide tonight's discussion. Tonight's discussion is actually topic on ruffling feathers. We want to innovate change and not just stir pot In a world where disruption can sometimes feel like confusion with leadership. We want to dig deep into what it really means to innovate and make sure that you can make meaningful, lasting change. Tonight is about bold leadership, purposeful disruption and building systems that were actually serving the people they were meant for. We'll hear from real-world strategies, stories and reflections from our panelists, and you guys will be able to have the chances to reflect through live polls.

Speaker 1:

We ask you, if you're joining as an audience, to please leave your screen off so that way we can highlight the panelists and their discussion through tonight. But you are welcome to actually guide through and participate through the actual chat if you have any questions. So let's get started. Let's go ahead and meet our panelists. I will introduce each one briefly and then we'll share a little bit about their leadership journey, why Ruffling Feathers has been a part of their mission and basically their passion for leadership. So we're going to go ahead and start off with Serena Diamond. If you guys have joined us last month, she was with us last month and we had to welcome her back for today's discussion. She definitely knows how to innovate change and be able to do that. That is her life background now and as a profession. Serena, welcome.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for having me back, Melissa. I do appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

You want to tell us a little bit about your background For sure.

Speaker 2:

So I am a recovering corporate transformation expert after 30 plus years. That started with Accenture and included some time at Pepsi-Cola and then a bit of time at Hyperion and Melon Investor Services, as well as at com. But really then the second half of my career was all at IBM building transformational processes, adopting new ways of working and really creating a lot of innovation in that organization. And then the last three years I have been out on my own really having a fabulous time helping clients do just exactly that create opportunities to innovate and change.

Speaker 1:

Be like you when I grow up, like literally, I want to support you as good as that.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for joining us. I am super excited to have you. Our most popular guest for podcasting is back Royston Telford. It looks like we're having some connectivity issues on the audio. I'm going to skip over TJ Coach. Tj Cunningham, I do see you in the audience, Not sure if you can come off mute and introduce yourself. He is a youth development coach and a nonprofit leader here in San Antonio. He's also a founder of a nonprofit called Taking Care of Home. If you could introduce yourself, TJ.

Speaker 3:

Sorry, I'm having more than technical difficulties over here. We were having practice and I had to run out of practice to get on my Zoom call.

Speaker 3:

Can everybody hear me, okay. Yes, sir, okay, can you see me? Yes, sir, okay, cool, all right, I am Coach TJ Cunningham. I'm the founder of Taking Care of Home, which is a nonprofit for homeless women and children. We do a lot for the community. We do food drives. We sometimes do placement for anyone that's needing another an alternative place to emergency housing, I guess is what we'll call it. We've done clothing drives. We've done just a lot of different stuff. Whatever we can help the community.

Speaker 3:

My latest greatest adventure is creating a sports academy for kids to make sure that they're out of the streets. We don't have any community centers on the Converse side, on the Northeast side district leaders to make sure the kids have alternatives to, you know, just crime and just getting into different area phases of stuff that they shouldn't be getting into. We started off with just a fifth grade group. Now we're third through seniors and we have four sports that kids have an alternative to jump into. We do track have an alternative to jump into. We do track, cornhole, basketball and taekwondo currently, and it is keeping me very, very, very busy.

Speaker 1:

So sorry for being late, but I tried to get as fast as I could. We appreciate you. I was going to say and that's amongst the few of the things he's currently doing. We have to put it out there we at Structure Innovations are completely grateful to him, as well as his organization. They have not only been an amazing champion for women and children here in San Antonio, but they've also been a huge help to our family. So huge gratitude goes out to Coach TJ and if you guys are interested in hearing more about that, please reach out to us. We will be more than happy to connect you.

Speaker 1:

We also have Amanda Price. She is a field organizer and a political advocate here in San Antonio. She is a champion for civic engagement and community empowerment. She is also constantly out there and making sure that everyone is getting the information that they need and getting ready for their vote. So she's probably not going to be able to come off camera because I know she's out there right now, but I know she's able to share off of audio. Amanda, can you introduce yourself for us?

Speaker 4:

Yes, my name is Amanda Price and I am a precinct chair for the Bexar County Democratic Party and currently a field organizer on two of the district races and one of the mayor races in this election. I don't know what else you want me to say.

Speaker 1:

No, that is perfect. She's a community advocate and she's very humble, but her voice is heard here in San Antonio and I think it's important to have her here. I'm excited and I think, bryston did we fix it on Looking like a no Try, turning off your camera and then just doing the audio and seeing what we get from that. Bryston, if that works and if not, you can also call in. Okay, no worries, bryston, I will go ahead and introduce you. So Bryston Telford he's been on. He is probably our most popular individual that we've had on our podcast called Structuring Chaotic Minds. He is an immigrant. He is also a US Army health liaison, so he's there in healthcare. He is a veteran entrepreneur now and he is all about building community. He is giving back and trying to bring trade for our young kiddos that are here in San Antonio, and he does lots of different partnerships as well as a lot of woodwork through his business, where he has our TV customs. So I'm gonna see if he's able to tune in or not.

Speaker 1:

We're gonna go ahead and get started with the panels and we sent a separate one. If you can't come on camera, guys, it's perfectly fine. Remember, this does get converted to a podcast, though, and again for our guests that are coming in a little bit late, thank you so much for joining us today. We ask that you just please keep your camera and audio up, so that way we can highlight this panelist and you will have the opportunity to engage via chat. If you guys have any questions, please ask them in the chat. All righty guys. So what does it mean to innovate change instead of just stirring pot, so I like to say agitating things, but, being honest, what does it really look like in your work, though? How do you stay focused on creating real outcomes and not just making people mad? I'm going to pitch that over to our panelist. Whoever wants to go first, nobody be scared.

Speaker 2:

I'll jump in. I wasn't sure if others were there. You know, I thought a lot about this because stirring the pot has such a negative connotation for so many people in such a big thing. So I was really trying to think about this thoughtfully and I I think that for lots of people, stirring the pot really tends to be focused around urgency, right, that it's something that's the shiny penny people will talk about, or the shiny new toy, or the shiny innovation, or it's something that, if the competitors are doing it, I've got to do it right now.

Speaker 2:

And so one of the things that when I oftentimes work with clients what to really focus on?

Speaker 2:

How do you innovate change and we're almost always focusing on how is it that you are transforming the way people work, what it is, what tools they're using, what processes they're following, what ways they're collaborating things that are all about creating momentum and creating lasting value. And I think too often, especially now at the rate and pace of changing the world, it's easy to think of change as a stir of the pot, something that is the newest innovation. I won't say AI, but it's interesting. I've had so many client requests ask me how do I incorporate AI into the work that I'm doing and how do I keep it from being the shiny new toy that we're all chasing? And if you continue to look at the way change is in a continuum in your organization and how you are building on momentum that already existed, you're very focused on the value, that you're focused on improving the way people work, the technology that they use to support that work and the processes that they follow. You'll be more about creating momentum and truly innovating change rather than simply reacting.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, anybody else. What does change look like for you all? For you all, because I love that and I love the concept of basically it shouldn't be a negative connotation to get people to start with that sense of urgency. I feel like some people are scared of change and that really deters people from this type of peace. What about our other panelists? What do you all think?

Speaker 6:

So I'll. Can you guys hear me? Okay, so change, so I'll. Can you guys hear me? Okay, so change. And well, my apologies, I had some issues earlier, but voice and tell for an active duty military, medical field, educational field as well in the military.

Speaker 6:

And what I can say as it relates to change, dependent on the different level that you're at, you're going to experience the difference of buy-in from the individuals at those different levels, depending on what it is to achieve. And my example it's basically lower level, lower enlisted, military. When it comes to change more so, the supervisory role is the one that drives the train. Anyone below there, it's just that you really don't have a say-so at that point. For lower enlisted, you just have to do what you're told and as you get higher in rank, in responsibility echelons, what happens?

Speaker 6:

Now you have a voice, but the higher you go and it's in everything else, there's more politics and bureaucracy. So you have to delicately navigate around that process and it's good to have the technological aspects of it, but one of the biggest hurdles, regardless of sector, regardless of whatever it is, it's the individual's mindset and how they look at the team. Do they look at the team as individuals, as persons as human beings, to build a team together, or are they just looking for worker bees to get stuff done? That's what I would say is one of the biggest difference when it comes to innovation and building teams.

Speaker 1:

Love that. Thank you, tj Amanda, do you guys want to piggyback off of that?

Speaker 3:

I agree with everything that's been said so far. With some of the stuff we deal with comes to change. It just seems like a lot of people are reluctant to change. But we have a better way of getting people to adapt to change if a lot of people think it's their idea for the change or they came up with the solutions to the problems, and so basically, you just want to get as many people involved as possible, get them to see the vision and have them on board to create the vision, because as long as they think they're the ones initiating the change and it's for the better, then they'll be more susceptible for the growth and the change that's to come.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I feel like one of the biggest things that was pushed on that is just making sure that people feel like they took a part of it, like their own sort of ownership not necessarily tricking them into feeling good with their idea, but really letting them be a part of that process, even if it means you've facilitated their decision in a certain manner. But yes, Bryston, you look like you wanted to say something.

Speaker 6:

Oh no, I was just listening. Everything, everything you guys said is correct. It's and I'm like that was just stated that buy-in that's the biggest thing. Did I actually influence? Did I play a part in influencing it? Because if that, if you don't get that feeling as a component to the entire wheel, what's going to happen? Those individuals are going to shut down. Yes, they're. They can have good ideas what you're going to find happening with that shutdown if they don't feel that they they supported this change or supported whatever it is you're going to find happening with that shutdown if they don't feel that they supported this change or supported.

Speaker 1:

whatever it is, you're going to lose them Absolutely. Amanda, did you want to emphasize anything?

Speaker 4:

I can just speak from my like, from the lens of politics. The lens of politics. I think we're really pushing now for citizen engagement, for things like participatory budgeting at a local level and like deliberate governing, where citizens are involved in policymaking and decisions on how to spend money that's allocated to the different districts. And I think that voter apathy is really showing up right now with our low voter turnout. I think that voter apathy is really showing up right now with our low voter turnout. I think that people just don't think that they get to participate the way that they should, and that's where I think the push needs to go, in politics at least.

Speaker 1:

Alyssa, do you want to go to our poll question? And now we give the audience a chance to engage in this and here's our question. I'm sorry when have you seen disruption lead to real change and when has it fallen flat? I'm going to go ahead and start sharing that with you guys now you guys can engage with it. A would be it led to lasting positive change. B it led to chaos, but no real improvements. Positive change. B it led to chaos, but no real improvements. C it sparked awareness, but no action. D it depended entirely on leadership. Or E I haven't seen real disruption firsthand. Pretty popular on it kind of depends on leadership. Your thoughts on that, anybody?

Speaker 2:

before we move on to the next piece from our panelists, it doesn't surprise me, I would say that number one in the experiences that I have is that it is almost exclusively based on how the leadership approaches, how the leadership communicates, how the leadership enables the changed behaviors that are expected, and then certainly, how they work on modeling and then sustaining those changes. So it can be the defining factor. It also is the single most consistent point of failure that I've seen across the board.

Speaker 1:

I love that, alyssa. Take us to our next slide then, because that's going to come up to the whole disrupting systems with a purpose. So let's dive a little bit deeper. How do we challenge these broken systems? Because people feel this way for a reason, but we also want to make sure that we don't create chaos or start burning yourself out or even your teams out. So, thinking about that, I'm going to pitch that question over to our panelists. How do you challenge those broken systems?

Speaker 6:

I can take a stab at that, challenging broken systems. One of the norms or one of the catalysts that I would say has that continuum of broken systems. It's the term. We've always done it this way, or people say we've all been accustomed to working this way, without reinventing the wheel, looking at the entire system and seeing areas that you know need to be worked on. And what was said before about leadership leadership, that is very significant when it comes to everything. Everything because, dependent on your leadership style, you will have people either supporting you just because you have that authority, or you're going to have individuals supporting you because they feel, again, they feel like they have that buy-in, because that leader actually cares for that individual.

Speaker 6:

So, when it comes to those broken systems, it's not just rehashing the entire system but looking at it and see what critical areas need improvement, and then what are the plans for improvement. And you go through the entire team and get their feedback on what they think, their candid feedback, what they think as it relates to what they have observed, how they think that aspect affects them and everyone else. And then what do they think can make that process better? And you do that with every echelon instead of only doing it with the higher echelon and leaving the lower ones out, because that way you foster camaraderie and morale and everyone again feels like they have that buy-in perspective you can enforce. Or I would say you, you will get more out of your subordinates, out of your team. I don't like to use that word. You know subordinates and higher echelon, lower echelon, that kind of stuff. Everyone's a member of the team. We just have different responsibilities. If we look at everyone as a human being, an individual, it works out a little bit better love that.

Speaker 1:

Any of you guys want to piggyback off of that tj is like I'm ready. No, I, I agree, I, I agree.

Speaker 3:

I just got a lot of thoughts running through my head from experiences that I have, things that I've been in through, and it's kind of just crashing at this point. I am a ruffle, the feathers type person for sure.

Speaker 6:

Now that too, unless somebody else wants to share.

Speaker 1:

Well, you can emphasize off of that, we can do another approach.

Speaker 6:

So ruffling the feathers. I am for that as well, and I would say the last two years or so I was that person Because I got into an environment and everyone was just doing stuff because they were accustomed to doing it this way. They were comfortable with doing it this way. But one thing about the military it has all the black and white and everything. Everything is there and if you pay attention to what it's saying and you minus emotions and I feel this way and personalizations, it would work.

Speaker 6:

I say that to say you sometimes have to take a stand. I am not an individual. I go against the grain. I don't mind losing my job, losing my rank, if I know, at the end of the day, what I'm doing is right.

Speaker 6:

And some individuals just like to be politically correct for lack of better words, or they don't have the cojones to say, hey, you know that's wrong, that we shouldn't do that.

Speaker 6:

We're going to have these problems. You know, foresight, nobody wants to stand up to their boss and you know, look like the black sheep. I got no problem with that. I'll stand up and tell you all day, at the end of the day, like it's your risk to take as the, the leader or the commander or whatever, and then if things don't work out the way that you wanted it to and we have to revert to what anyone else was saying, my smile is gonna say everything, but I'm not gonna sit there and you're just gonna do whatever you want to do because you have that rank, you have that authority. I see things changing in another direction now with the upcoming generation and then powers that be politically. That's a whole different arena if, if you don't stick to the script, or you don't be responsible and I don't say stick to the script in terms of just going with the flow by doing what's right, by representing individuals, being that voice for people that are being quenched by leadership or by authority.

Speaker 1:

Anybody want to piggyback off of by doing what's right and what that means to you if you were in the panelists.

Speaker 2:

So it's interesting because I was going to talk a little bit about what Royston was talking about, only in that I would be the opposite in stylistically, in that I don't necessarily believe that the outcomes that you're looking for are achieved by ruffling feathers. Now, that's not to say going with status quo, because the last one, those two words, don't go together in any sentence that I've ever spoken out loud. But the concept of ruffling feathers, if you actually think about what a bird is doing, is making themselves look bigger, reacting to stimulus, but nothing happens. There isn't something that happens other than let me be bigger and bolder, and maybe you will then be intimidated and back down. And one of the things that I've seen you guys make I have reached the point in my career and in my life's journey that we've had an enormous amount of the world that's about ruffling their own feathers so that they look bolder and bigger and more bully-ish towards each other in leadership, in environments inside and outside of leadership, and it hasn't worked inside and outside of leadership and it hasn't worked Like at some point, if you have a brain that you're engaged in, you're not reacting from an emotional point or from a reactive point, you can actually say we need to try something different.

Speaker 2:

Ruffling feathers doesn't actually create action. It doesn't create lasting change. It doesn't rarely does it ever even spur change. What it does is it allows you to emit your emotions and then maybe you have to save face later. Maybe you get. You know, some of your constituents looking at you with that I told you so smile that they won't say it because they're too intimidated perhaps, but they know that what you were doing wasn't going to lead the outcomes. So I am not a big fan of either the term or the practice, because I you know what we just learned that it doesn't work.

Speaker 1:

I love that and that's that's kind of the whole point. I love how TJ also pointed out that he is all about actually doing that and he actually doesn't realize that's how he gets people to listen, is not doing that. I've noticed it in his coaching what he does with kids and what he does with children and he does exactly what you're saying, serena. He brings a calmer setting. You're not wrong. That's the whole concept. How do you light that fire? How do you make them ruffle their feathers Like to actually have a response, not ruffle your own feathers to say I'm going to die in the room? How do you light that fire inside them and not just talk about, just smack TJ?

Speaker 3:

That's what I was going to say. It really depends on whose feathers are being ruffled. You know the example she gave was more ruffling your own feathers, but you should already know what kind of feathers you have. It's about ruffling the feathers of someone else that think they're bigger, badder, stronger or intimidating. It's their feathers that you have to ruffle to get them to create the change or do something, even if it's to be bigger than they are or be uncomfortable. But I guess it would just come down to the definition of ruffling feathers, and there's probably multiple.

Speaker 3:

But at the end of the day, if someone's uncomfortable about change, there's going to be ruffled feathers. That's the only way you're going to create the change, because change is not common. People don't want to change. People want to be stuck in the system that they're in because that's where they're comfortable at. And in order to get people to change, you have to make them uncomfortable for some way form or fashion. And it's not necessarily a negative uncomfortable, because making the system better, bigger, bolder, it's still change. But you have to make them see the vision to be able to do that. So that is a. That's a ruffle of feathers, also to me.

Speaker 1:

Got to move on to the next piece, so I got to let the full question, so I'm going to push out the next question. Guys, thinking about this, alyssa, you want to pull it up for full question number two, and then this question is going to come to the audience. Where do you feel most stuck when trying to create change? Because you've heard everything that the panelists are saying. Sometimes it's outdated leadership mindsets, sometimes it's organizational policy barriers, sometimes it's lack of community or team buy-in, personal burnout or frustration, unclear purpose and vision. Sometimes that frustration really is there.

Speaker 1:

If you frustrate those people and you ruffle their feathers too much, then they might not be receptive to that change. They might feel guarded, and I think that's the whole point of this discussion. Yes, you can light fire in people, but was it effective and how do we keep it effective? For time's sake, I'm going to go ahead and share what we have so far, and it seems to be outdated leadership mindset. All right, so then let's talk about the power of purpose-driven innovation, especially if we're talking about outdated. How do we make sure that we can innovate values and service and still make sure that people feel like short-term, long-term, that they're invested in it? All those discussions that we've been talking about. How do we actually make that feasible for our people so they feel safe, so they feel like they are a part of the team. They are a part of the discussion? I'm going to try to push it to Amanda first, only because we haven't heard from her.

Speaker 4:

I don't know that. I don't know. I don't see any kind of changes happening until until we find a way to mobilize people to vote the morons that are already in power out of power, and I really don't see that happening without specific campaign finance reforms. Um like publicly funded elections trans. Like lobbyists stop being in special interest groups not involved in buying politicians, politicians not invested in only doing policy based on who their lobbyists are. I don't really know how we get there, but I don't really think that we can go any further without finding a way to get there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, anybody else want to piggyback off of that, maybe in your area or even further in what she's saying.

Speaker 3:

From a political standpoint. I think she's right that the lobbyists, the people that have a lot of personal gain. I think that's very important. It's not one of those squeaky wheel gets grease.

Speaker 2:

It has a lot to do with financial and money A lot of it centered around not the purpose of the change, but the purpose of the organization, that you are focused on, the why. Why do we exist? What is it that we are here to serve, whether it be human beings, larger, small groupings of those, and I think that that's really where I see the work that I do with 99.9% of my clients. It almost always has to restart because I never get called in at the beginning. I always get called in after things have gone poorly.

Speaker 2:

And resetting the why. Coming back to the purpose, what was the rationale for this at the beginning?

Speaker 6:

was one of those really important steps for innovation to be successful that why I think it's also important to for the individuals there, in whatever organization, right as you refocus, refresh on that purpose, also show them, try to paint that picture again, that vision right, and then their purpose where do they fit in and how do they benefit in that organization? Just letting them know, hey, at the end of the day, you know, depending on where it's at I can't speak so much for politics, that's a whole different beast, but when it comes to those organizations, it's just letting individuals know where they fit into this whole grand scheme of everything and they actually have buy-in, they actually have some ownership of it. So, not only rehashing the organizational's purpose, but also your purpose and what you're benefiting from, the overall grand scheme of things.

Speaker 1:

And so we can move to the next piece for the panel or for the audience then, because then it's going to lead to everybody asking does your current role actually allow you guys to lead with purpose? So is that a yes, absolutely, I feel aligned and empowered. B would be sometimes it depends on the situation. C would be no, I feel really restricted and off mission. Or D, I'm not sure and I'm still figuring it out.

Speaker 1:

Guys, as we're looking at this, it seems to be people are saying mainly, sometimes it depends on the situation, and then a few people are saying yes, absolutely, and we did have one end up saying no, I feel restricted, and nobody else seems to feel like they're just figuring out. So that's a good thing. I'm going to the next piece of this. So then let's talk about leading through that discomfort For me nine times out of ten.

Speaker 1:

What I notice with a lot of leaders, it's a lot to implement something brand new and something different and then include everybody else who doesn't understand the budget and who doesn't understand the big scale of the organization and all the other pieces, and not feel like you have to go train the whole team to get it done. So that tends to get avoided and looking at that piece, often that'll make the team feel like they were unheard because not every single person was included in that discussion and feelings get hurt and everything else happens and then we hit the turmoil. So how did you guys lead through discomfort, criticism or anything pushback whenever you tried to make change in your organizations? I'm going to kick it to the panelists.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting, Melissa, as you were just sort of describing the steps.

Speaker 2:

What kept coming back to me was a lack of trust, Because the kinds of pushback, the kinds of discomfort, the kinds of criticism as far as the examples that you gave were in those times where, whether they be your peers, your constituents or your stakeholders, if they don't trust you, then when it comes to implementing any change, there is such an easy road to take around criticism, around any kind of discomfort. So, in order for leaders to truly be able to have, I wouldn't say clear sailing, but clearer sailing, to create innovation and create a path for that, it really does come down to, you know, having a core value, internal core value around building trust, such that when you have a difficult decision to make, when there is a change ahead of you, when there is something that you need to communicate but you can't communicate all of it, you can't burden your entire organization with every financial detail that is behind the reasons. It's truly important to make sure that, as a leader, you are showing up in a trust building capacity in everything that you're doing.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to piggyback off of that one. I'm going to piggyback off of that one. I think the first one they noticed when it came down to and it needed to implement something new or something different on the campus was the parents did they trust me or did they not? And did the teachers trust it or did it not? But what I noticed is when I had full trust and clarity and already built that relationship, they didn't even ask why there definitely was no, why it was already like, honestly, she doesn't make us do more than we need to. So if we're doing this, then there's a reason for it and that was great.

Speaker 1:

Because that trust made things move faster, you're not wrong, like it really does move those things along, and I think some leaders sometimes think that's just so much stuff. But it's like you kind of got to earn your stripes too. You got to build that trust, whatever is necessary for that team to build that relationship and that transparency over time and have that trust with you. You kind of got to put in the time and effort and phases and steps, whatever's necessary to make sure that you have that full support, because if not, how do you expand and how do you go further with that. See Royston like shaking his head and I'm not sure what he's thinking.

Speaker 6:

Oh yeah, absolutely. Trust is big. I got to trust as a centerpiece of everything. Trust, empowering both senior and juniors as well, empowering everyone that has a piece to do in it. Once you take that away, I would say that would deteriorate the entire team, because you can shut down somebody that wants to try, but they're probably an introvert and it took a lot for them to finally build up to get to that point. But everybody looks at them as like, yeah, you know, they don't know what they do a lot or they think too much or they overthink or whatever. So trust, I would say trust is key, empowering. And then, thirdly, cultures, culture differences. You know that plays a significant key in how a lot of individuals look at organizational structures based on what environment they grew up in. What were those values that they grew up in, what were those cultures that they grew up in? Because we know from different backgrounds, different religions. They trust is different from different religions. So that plays a significant role too.

Speaker 1:

I love that you point that out, because I feel like I don't really think about the cultural thing until I'm thinking about a global scale and then all of a sudden I'm very conscientious of how I'm trying to disseminate a message. But I do see that in cultural, with students, and different pieces too in education. So you're not wrong, you have to be. I kind of want to piggyback to what Serena was saying earlier, and the message that I was hearing was if the nervous system is overstimulated and feeling like, oh my God, it's going to shut down and it's not going to hear anything you say. So she's not saying you shouldn't say there's an issue and bring it up. She's really saying the measure that you go about it. How do you want to be effective and make sure that people actually heard what you said instead of tuned everything out? And that's really what I think we miss as leaders sometimes.

Speaker 1:

But we're going to go to our last panelist question or, I'm sorry, poll question for the audience so that way we can shift over to their open questions, because they have had a few and I'm looking at this. So what's your biggest challenge for the audience in leading uncomfortable conversations? Is it staying calm and grounded, getting others to listen, managing emotional reactions, whether it's yours or theirs, others to listen, managing emotional reactions whether it's yours or theirs, gaining buy-in or commitment to change or possibly choosing the right battles to actually fight for yourself. This one's pretty split this time. What are we thinking about those results as we start picking that to the ending discussions for the panelists?

Speaker 2:

it looks well. A and c to me were both focused on emotions, right, so it kind of looks like those are split, a split of the same thing. It was funny because I also thought b and d was this was right, listening, getting buy-in. It doesn't surprise me that emotions because there's so much emotion in the world that everyone is dealing with that any kind of an uncomfortable conversation, anticipating it, anticipating emotional reaction and that brings up the elevation across the board. People, people's communication skills have continued to decline just when they needed to be the best they've ever been no, I agree with that.

Speaker 1:

I think I kind of named it when it was more about the feelings and the emotions and most of the time we're so tuned in to making decisions based on just the emotions. It's really not effective and that's when we really got to listen and make that peace. But I think people feel like their leaders ran everything because there was such high emotions because of the lack of communication that they felt unheard and something else trickled and it's a ripple effect from everything that we've been talking about today because of that one piece in those emotions and someone just couldn't say, hey, you hurt my feelings. Can you repeat that? Because I didn't appreciate that and unfortunately that's kind of where we're at now in this generation. But you're not wrong, we move further. So much more panelists or audience. Do y'all have any questions for our panelists? I know, ms Tina, you were raising your hand earlier. Do you have any specific questions for our panelists now?

Speaker 8:

Apologies. There was more comments on the commentary, but not a question. But Alyssa, she clarified it for me, so I'm now in the receiving the input mode. That makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Perfect, perfect. Does anybody else want to piggyback off of what they saw in the poll results or any questions? So if we don't have any questions, then audience. I'm just going to ask you all instead to share with us in the chat or feel free to come off mute if you really would like to. What was your biggest takeaway from today and where do you feel called to? Ruffle feathers? Make an impact, but not necessarily look like you're just puffing up your feathers.

Speaker 5:

I would say what I would take away from tonight is that I'm usually like, afraid to ruffle feathers because, like, I worry, I worry about others feelings, you know, and so, basically, what I would take away from tonight is just, you know, just to have more, more courage, like, more, more courage, and, like you know, and what I do, such as, like you know, I'll give an example I remember one time we was in the car and I had called my business little, and you had, and you had said, don't call your business little, you don't know what it's capable of. Yet I was like, and I was like, so like I keep reminding myself of that and everything as well, even when I'm in the midst of contracts, and everything as well, you know, having the courage to be like, hey, you're gonna pay me up front, you know that is not something that even adults have the courage to do yet, so it makes you feel better.

Speaker 1:

Trust me. Every adult has questioned am I, are my services really worth it? Can I really charge that you are not alone, nazir.

Speaker 6:

You're going to get there. You're going to start smiling when you feel brave enough to be like hey, no, you can go somewhere else.

Speaker 1:

So Nazir is our newest intern, royston. He will be covering videography photography and our editing. He is also certified in cybersecurity, so we're super excited to introduce him.

Speaker 6:

Awesome Multifaceted I know I'm excited.

Speaker 1:

Tina, you have a question love.

Speaker 8:

So a comment In my arena, with my job, my occupation, working with the federal government, I'm never in a space where communication should be mute because in the leadership role, every leader have something to offer right In the charter school role, the children you know their needs are always evolving, so there should never be a space where that communication is not flowing. Of course there was always be a topic of the mission. You know what is the mission or what are the goals and we go from there. But I encourage all of my colleagues that I work with or if I'm in a space where I'm volunteering, your voice is important, your input is important, your work is important. So that is how you grow. You know that's how you reach other key stakeholders. So you know that commentary, that communication is important. You know they try to mute my voice. No, no, I live in a world where my voice is powerful and it's necessary and I make sure whomever I'm working with knows that.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say it won't, let me unmute. I was trying to say great job, tina. I love it. Let's show Hi love Come off mute.

Speaker 7:

Hi. Yes, I want to know if you guys could speak a little bit more about when you're in certain spaces and you are trying to facilitate change or bring up issues that need to be addressed, that are serious and kind of navigating when it's worth the fight and when it's not.

Speaker 1:

My favorite book that I would recommend would be Crucial Conversations, and then the follow-up would be Crucial Confrontations, because it literally explains. If you should ever even get to that step I'm gonna. I see Serena like dying inside to say that.

Speaker 2:

You know you picked the wrong. I think we said the even before we got started. This is my lifeblood. So every one of these conversations it's like I will tell you and maybe it just it comes with tenure I wouldn't say age, but maybe it's just tenure, especially when the conversation is going to be, or you anticipate it to be, difficult, caustic, what have you?

Speaker 2:

I often challenge any level of human being, any adult human being, not a kid, to start with curiosity, not a kid to start with curiosity. If you can think about what questions would I ask? Not accusations, not challenging to prove your point, but being truly, truly curious about the motivation of someone else, about the rationale behind the decision, in a way that helps you to get better. And I know it's way back, you guys may not. You probably were in grade school when the whole thing about seek to understand before Right, you're all like in Right and I remember that, having a really critical because I, like many high achieving people, I came out of college and went off to Accenture and discovered that's where all of the high achieving people went and all of a sudden I had the starts of imposter syndrome which I had never had in my life, of imposter syndrome, which I had never had in my life and for a lot of reasons, unrelated mostly just because of my family of origin, allowing me to not see that I wasn't. You know that there might have been a reason, but I will tell you that the curiosity, understanding, the unique perspectives.

Speaker 2:

I have met more people that I have sort of a fan effect over, and then I meet them and they tell me something that is so common with my own experience. I'm like, wow, you put your pants on one leg at a time too, and it really does help. So I think one of the things I coach a lot of people is oh, I wonder what's behind that. Like, I ask that of everything, I wonder what's behind that? It allows you to come at it from a place where there isn't conflict and there's not emotion, right? Both of those questions that were emotion. I used to say people would ask me all the time how can you be so passionate about your work and have so little emotion? Because it really isn't about that, it's about being curious.

Speaker 1:

I want to piggyback off of that, because I think you're right 100%. But I noticed I did it best when I was working with kids, and my kids will say this too. I don't give adults as much leniency as I do children. But children, I don't care how many times they screw up, I don't care how many times they got it wrong. I was like they're still learning. I'm not going to get mad over spilt milk, but if I already taught those systems and procedures, it does affect me.

Speaker 1:

And then it's emotional and I have to check myself and be like well, let's be real. Why am I losing my my ish, if I'm the one leading the classroom? Did I really set the expectations? Did I really do all that? Now let me ask myself ah crap, probably didn't. All right, guys, let's, let's try again tomorrow, like it was really. Uh, have to step back, reflect and be real with myself. If there's a break, if it's me, if it's the kids, why? So that curiosity is kind of necessary and I've carried that over to coaching. I think you're right like spot on what you're saying. Sorry, and it makes it that much more powerful and kind of, how TJ said, making it like their idea. No, I mean, most people already know what they have to do. The best coaches will pull them out of you with questions and Bryston hates me when I say that because I I'm like I'll give you the solutions. I give you the questions.

Speaker 2:

Well, one of the things, Melissa I probably say this to a leader a day If you think for a second that people in the world today are not distracted by all the things going on in the world around behind their little keyboard, check yourself and so, while it and to your point, did you teach the thing to the adults that you meant and did you? Were you clearing your learning objectives? Were you clearing your delivery? And does that mean they were in a place that they could hear you? And in some cases it's 100% about the distractions that are going on in their world or in our bigger world. And I say it literally every day to leaders.

Speaker 2:

I say I wonder what's going on for the person that is not living up to the expectations you had, not delivering against your expectations, not meeting the objectives or the deadlines or the agreements, missing that commitment, right? I love when someone says I don't understand what's wrong with her. She always she makes a commitment and she always delivers on it. I don't know. I think we're going to have to put her on the PIP list or or the, and I say wait like unwind that a minute. What's going on? That's different and if it's, if in fact you can be looking at that and if, if the people come to trust you, that that's you're on their side, it's a whole different experience for everyone. But everyone is is dealing with something going on and in distraction love that hyper focus, and-focus and hyper-vigilance.

Speaker 1:

Nizer, you had a question Liv.

Speaker 5:

Wrong button, sorry. So I was going to ask. So, like, when it, when it comes to, like you know, ruffle and feather, how did you get used to doing that? Where did you like come into a point of your career of like, okay, like now it was like you know the time, you know, I had to, like you know, at the time, you know, I had to, like, you know, spread my wings, and it's like that.

Speaker 1:

I appreciate that you point that out. Trust me, I like to be liked and I don't go into rooms trying to piss people off. That is not the intention. That just tends to be what I naturally do, and I'm not even aware of it. So I had to start stepping back and realizing I have a reputation of being an honest agitator. I have a reputation of ruffling feathers. I have a reputation of igniting fires. What does that mean? Does that mean that I had malicious intentions or does that mean that I sparked something? How do we do that?

Speaker 1:

And then, when I sparked something, what did I have to do to make sure that I could drive that change and make people feel that I support them? And, as Bryson would say, I look at them as a person. And, as Serena would say, not like basically throw off their entire nervous system. Like TJ would end up saying like, still say what I got to say. And Amanda's definitely going to say like, admit it, tell them what you're like, what you're doing, be transparent. None of it was intentional. The point is, sometimes, when we try to push and innovate for change, we naturally ruffle feathers because people get a little bit scared about change. And this whole topic is to say it's not bad to innovate, change or ignite something inside of people, but how do we make sure it's effective and we don't just burn people out and constantly focus on the noise?

Speaker 6:

I wanted to add a little to what Serena said earlier too, when it comes to that curiosity, because, like I said, my last two years I worked in an environment where the whole mission was different and that curiosity aspect that makes a big difference. That curiosity aspect can create that trust that you're looking for, right, because she said, you know, hey, this person always meets this deadline, they always do this, they always do that. What distractions is that person having in their personal life that's affecting their professional life? Right? And if you as a leader, whatever, if you as a person see that in someone and take the time to find out what's the root cause, that curiosity can lead to a lot of team building. Now, it can also lead to destruction, because if you're curious and you're just doing that because and you're not listening attentively and you're just listening to respond, you're going to lose that person again. So that curiosity is going to help. Root cause of what's what's actually happening.

Speaker 1:

Any of our other panelists want to piggyback off of that before we wrap it up, because I love that.

Speaker 3:

I will say to all the young leaders out there to inspire change is to inspire hope, and one of the ways to go about looking at it as a leader a leader, an effective leader anyway must have followers. You can't look behind you, nobody's there. So when you ignite change, when you ignite hope, when you ignite something different, you're doing it on behalf of something, either yourself or a multitude of coworkers, friends, anything and that was gives you the passion and the drive to move forward, knowing that someone's going to benefit from the change, and the more the merrier. So it's good to know your surroundings, know the people that you represent, know the people that you're advocating for, because when you're marching for somebody else, it's a different march than being selfish.

Speaker 1:

You guys just have so many amazing mic drop moments today. All right, put this guy on a t-shirt, gotta get his coat on a t-shirt. Some bumper stickers coming off of this and such guys. Well, thank you all so much as we wrap up everything. Really, this is supposed to be about innovation. It isn't just being loud. It's about being clear, courageous and committed to real change, and not just innovating these things because you want to be seen. These systems that we have to challenge today are supposed to shape tomorrow's future. So, those of you that are here, you were here because you've either been impacting other people in change or you're so invested in people's future. So a huge thank you to our panelists and to all of you for bringing your leadership and your voice to this space tonight. I thank you so much. Don't forget to check out our website for structureinnovationscom for more leadership resources, and we will see you guys next month on collaborative leadership.

Speaker 1:

Until next time, stay structured and smiling and have a powerful night. Keep building change where it matters. Thank you for tuning in to Structuring Chaotic Minds. If today's episode resonated with you, don't forget to subscribe, share and leave a review. Remember the key to success is not avoiding chaos, but learning how to structure it. Stay inspired, keep growing and join me next time as we continue to transform challenges into opportunities. Until then, take care and keep structuring your chaotic mind.

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